The long-term custodian at our church has been a member of the church for twenty years. His family has been a part of the church for 60+ years. The problem is that he is getting older, and he is not doing the job that we need done. We don’t want to hurt him or his family, but we need improvement in caring for our facility. Any suggestions?
There are too many unknown factors to offer concrete advise. But let’s assume by your question that the reason he is not doing such a good job is his age, he is paid employee, and your church is running less than 250 in Sunday morning attendance. I also assume you have committed this to prayer and you believe the Lord has answered that something has to be done. There are only a few options.
First, you could talk to him and kindly address the areas that need more attention. I suspect if this is a hard thing to do, that coaching meetings/reviews/evaluations are not something that is regularly done. If this is the case, you will want to have regular meetings with future workers (including volunteer) so that a culture of improvement and accountability is established. If it is not his age, but the job has grown beyond what any one person can really accomplish, which could be the case if your facilities are aging, you may consider getting him a helper. If a helper is not an option, but facilities and workload are indeed factors in the equation, then the church will need to address it. Ask him what the church can do to help him get the job done.
Second, your church could ask some volunteers to help out with certain task leaving him more time to focus on harder more time consuming things. Simple things like having Sunday school classes bag their own garbage will make a big difference. Workdays once a month can also help maintain a facility. Having volunteers give one Saturday morning a month to the church grounds and maintenance will go a long way. As facilities age and as congregations grow having regular work days help even the largest congregations keep their facilities in pristine condition.
Third, and obviously not what you want to do, if you have already talked to him, worked with him, are helping him, and he cannot even maintain the simplest of duties, you may need to replace him. I would use extreme caution and care. You might give him another job, something he can do, and then get a replacement to do the custodian work. If their family needs the money and they are faithful members, you have to meet their financial needs, it is the right thing to do.
It sounds like you need to spend some time with him in any case and begin to address some of the items that need greater attention. But be fair. If the job has outgrown him, acknowledge it. But in all cases love him and his family, even if it down not go down like you would want it too.
My first response is that there are simply too many unknowns to offer sound advice.
For example, have work expectations been clearly communicated and has there been ongoing accountability? Often church volunteers are allowed to operate on auto-pilot until there is a problem and then there is crisis intervention that can be misunderstood and hurt feelings.
Another question would be regarding the size of the church and the size of the job. Is he doing more than one man can handle?
Third, how old is the man and is he open to the idea of “retiring” or handing off the baton?
Fourth, are you a single pastor and the sole decider of this man’s future? In any case, you will be the one held accountable for the cleanliness of the church. Is there a team of men involved with this decision so it does not come down to just you looking like the bad guy?
Fifth, is this a paid position?
I will assume the scenario that Tony W. has put forth and share accordingly. First of all, the cleanliness of the church is not an issue that can be ignored for long or set aside out of concern for the feelings of others. When it comes to visitors, cleanliness is next to godliness.
Second, the ministry is people and this man and his family have probably invested long hours in serving at the church. Their need for love, affirmation, appreciation, gratitude, and significance in Christ should be addressed in a manner that is healthy for them and for the church.
Third, I would sit down with this man over lunch and just get a feel for where he is in life and this particular ministry. Is he ready to step down? Has he lost interest? Is he ill? Does he want the position/title (significance) more than the responsibility (function)? Is he looking for help? If it is a paid position, does he need the money?
I would share with him the importance of the job and value the contribution he has made. I would also point out how the areas that have been wanting are critical to the health, reputation, and mission of the church.
Based on the information that you glean, I would be prepared to offer a variety of options to him. Tony W has given excellent advice that is hard to improve on. The options seem to be as follows (I am sure others will offer more options and perhaps better ones):
1) He wants to stay on and not change. In which case you will have to do the hard thing and replace him. It would be important to do the necessary prep work relationally with all those concerned and do your best to make it a team decision. Present it as a missional decision and not an institutional one, because it is.
Another option here is to institute new changes that incorporate expectations and evaluations that may lead to him not wanting the job anymore with its new accountability.
2) He wants to stay on but is willing to work with others. This can be a good thing and an opportunity to implement new changes when the new person comes on. He may want something to do that has value but no longer wants the full responsibility.
Money may be an issue in this option. You may choose to pay for two janitors until he is ready to step down. You may also want to divide the job up permanently so in the future when changes are made it does not all rest on one person.
3) He is ready to step down. Since there is family in the church, it is their responsibility to care for him if he is in need financially. In any case, much should be made of his long years of service. Most people simply want to know that you love them and appreciate them. Make much of his years of service before the church and celebrate his service as you call for others to meet the need.
The “new hire” will give you the opportunity to rethink the role and responsibilities of the janitor. Is it more of a volunteer ministry or an actual job on the staff of the church? Either way, a job/ministry description with expectations, responsibilities, and accountability built in will go a long way to avoiding future problems.
Finally, lots of prayer and loving affirmation will open doors of possibilities along the way. I really believe a missional approach to the need for a clean church might help to keep the focus off of you versus the family.
Tony has been pretty thorough in his his response. He has made some good points that deserve consideration.
Has this situation been discussed in a private meeting of the church leadership? You can’t know where to go with any of this until the leadership has been alerted to the problem. My assumption is that you have not sat down and directly addressed these issues with the janitor. Consulting with the full church leadership first will help to inform you as to how to proceed with the janitor, but you can’t skirt the issue; you must graciously and lovingly discuss your concerns with him. Without his feedback it is impossible to know how to proceed. Interaction with him may provide insights that could resolve, or at least help clarify, the whole issue. You never know.
There’s a big fear-factor in all of this that is perhaps imposing a paralysis on the whole process. Regardless of how this is resolved, in the future, it might be well-advised to hire from outside the church. That way when you encounter problems, they can be addressed with fearing creation of a conflict in the church.
Tony,
You have offered exceptional advice in my opinion. I especially liked the following:
“Third, and obviously not what you want to do, if you have already talked to him, worked with him, are helping him, and he cannot even maintain the simplest of duties, you may need to replace him…You might give him another job, something he can do, and then get a replacement to do the custodian work.”
I like the practical progression: talk to him, work with him, help him, and only then replace him. The value in this is that the pastor shoulders the responsibility for not doing these things in the past (assuming that coaching/expectations/reviews have not been a part of the past). In other words, the need for change is not pushed onto the aging janitor alone.
One area I may disagree on or at least would like to explore is regarding helping the man out financially. If it is just him and there are no younger family members in the church (his own children for example), then financial help would be an option, but if his kids are members, would it not be their responsibility to help dad out and not the church (1 Tim 5:8)?
The previous responses from Tony, Chris, and Len offer excellent advice for this situation. In responding to the original post I am assuming that the duties have not changed significantly, that the church genuinely cares for this man and his family (not being bitter because of his lack of performance), and that the problem stems from the man not being able to physically do what he has previously been doing. Because this problem has the potential to do great harm to the church if not handled correctly, the first thing to do is bathe the situation in prayer, earnestly seeking God’s guidance.
If the man is considering retirement in the near future (within the next year), it is advisable to take a more passive approach. I would probably schedule a workday at the church once a quarter and allow the volunteers to do some of the things that will keep the church from looking neglected. Perhaps the volunteers can do some of the heavier cleaning jobs that do not necessarily need to be done on a continual basis. If church members are aware that the man is retiring soon, and they genuinely care about him, they will probably be willing to do this as a stop-gap measure.
If the man has no intentions of retiring soon, then a more direct approach is necessary. One approach may be to causally walk through the building with the gentleman, pointing out areas that need his attention. If there is a job description or a schedule of duties that show what is supposed to be done and when it is to be done, then it would be good to review this list with him in a non-confrontational manner. This would call his attention to the areas that are being neglected, and it would also give him an opportunity to express any concerns he may have (e.g. different equipment or supplies needed, scheduling problems, etc.). If the problem is due to diminished physical ability on his part, there may be relatively inexpensive equipment or tools the church can acquire to help him compensate for the problem.
Sometimes, as we age, accomplishing the same amount of work requires us to put forth a little more physical effort or to plan our work smarter. Perhaps if the areas of neglect are lovingly pointed out to him, it may prompt him to realize that he needs to change the way he has been doing things. It may also be the key to helping him realize, on his own, that the time has come for him to step down from the position.
If it becomes necessary to remove him from the position, proceed with caution and be sure to document all previous conversations and offers to make adjustments or purchase different equipment. It is almost impossible to go through a dismissal process without some negative effects, but it is important to do as much upfront damage control as possible. A final word of caution, if he is an employee of the church you must be careful to consider legal issues regarding labor laws and employee rights.
I agree with much of what has been said. May advice would be to talk to him privately. I would wabt to know his attitude towards the job. Does he feel overwhelmed by the job? How does he see his role in the future in this job? I just want get feed back from him to know if he even wants to continue to do the job. My experience has taught me that he most likely already knows there is a problem. If he does then you have a platform to work with him to find a solution to the problem. What you want to do is avoid making the situation personal. It is about the church being the best it can be. For sure talk to him and get more information. The answer for what to do next will come from the new knowledge gained. You may find that your fears of hurting the family are not likely to happen because he is ready to give up the job or he knows he needs more help and wants help. You cannot let your fears stop you from acting. Leadership is being a problem solver.
@ Jerry Workman – I agree that if he is planning on retiring soon, then waiting it out is the best course. I also agree that as much communication as you can do up front (documented) will help everyone cope with the transition regardless of how it happens. Jerry’s idea about a walk through may be a good plan to open the door of conversation. With Easter approaching, you have a reason to address most facility issues. Using Easter as the benchmark, you can place the emphasis on the needs of the church and take the attention off of his performance. This will allow you to communicate new expectations and give him a chance to discuss his abilities.
@ Chris Regas – Good suggestions Chris. As for the 1 Tim 5:8 reference. I think the church should be prepared to help the man as he transitions to other employment and make sure the family does not suffer because of their decision. If the guy is old and cannot do his job, I find it difficult to just let him go. The church should have seen it coming and been planning for it. Since they have not planned on it or made a transition plan, they shoulder the responsibility. If he is lazy then let him go. But if he is sick or old, you have to find him another place of help take care of him during transition especially since he is a member.
@ Len Anderson – I agree, hire people who are not in the church then we can fire them at will. I know that is not exactly what you said. I do agree though, sometimes it is easier to handle situations when the backlash is not as far reaching . I do often wonder, should I treat people any differently because it cost me more capitol? Is doing so good leadership, playing politics, or poor integrity. I suspect in all circumstances we should treat every decision as if it is our last. I think having some leadership input is wise too, good advise Len. I would caution though, you do not want to create a situation like Jerry referenced where people have the opportunity to become resentful of his work. I would be careful and make sure your council is godly and discerning.
This is a delicate situation…one that could easily divide a church. Therefore, it must be handled with extreme care and through much prayer.
I agree with the suggestions that have been made so far. I believe this is a situation that the pastor doesn’t and shouldn’t want to tackle by himself. Without knowing the specifics of who this custodian reports to, it is difficult to say exactly what should be done. For instance, does he report to a building supervisor, personnel committee, one of the ministerial staff, or directly to the pastor? Whoever is the custodian’s supervisor should document every conversation with the man. They should politely and respectfully do a walk-thru with the custodian, pointing out the neglected areas and talking through solutions. Maybe the man cannot physcially do some of the work like replacing light bulbs, so a solution might be a work day where volunteers help out with those neglected areas.
Most likely the walk-thru will not fix the situation though. There is a reason why this man’s work is slipping. So the talk will only help for a while before the neglected areas pop up again. Therefore, the leadership will need to consider how to replace the man without hurting him. I assume he has done a good job for twenty years, so he needs to be rewarded for his track record. Replacing him won’t be easy, but if done correctly the church will not be hurt by it. Here are some possible steps:
1) Talk with the man and be lovingly honest with him. Ask him for suggestions on how to move forward. If he physically cannot do the work any longer, he might be looking forward to retiring. If this is the case, you might ask him to help in finding his replacement. I have found that you never go wrong by being upfront with people. But I would talk to him with a couple witnesses. As a pastor I wouldn’t talk with him about stepping down alone in my office.
2) Throw a huge party to honor his service for twenty years. Pull out all the stops! Make this party a church wide event and celebrate this man’s work. Include a video of his work over the last twenty years, making sure to connect his service to the ministry of the church. Show how what he did each week to get the church’s facilities ready paved the way for God’s Spirit to move in the lives of the people. Encourage the church members to bless this man with gifts at the party.
3) It is never right to throw someone out without a parachute, so the church will need to give this man a generous severence if he in fact needs to retire. This severence needs to be discussed publicly with the church so that no one will think that the leadership just tried to get rid of him. The church needs to know that he is retiring because of physical reasons, not because he’s being thrown to the curb. The severence package probably needs to be six months salary.
Response to Len Anderson:
There have been times when I wish my support staff were hired from outside the church. It would be much easier to deal with the problems then. However, like Tony mentioned, I should be just as careful with nonmember staff as I am with staff who are part of the church. For me I like staff members who are part of the church because they seem to put more heart into their work. For them it is more than punching a clock and getting a paycheck. They are working for God and their church.
Hiring church members does complicate the business side of the office, but the reward is much greater in my experience. If they know you love them and they trust your heart, you can work through the problems.
At this point in the conversation, nothing has been said about who oversees the janitor. At least in my experience, the janitor is under the authority of the trustee team or the building and grounds team. The pastor serves as an ex-officio member of the team, but this takes the burden off of the pastor. Maybe this is a possibility as a new janitor transitions in for the future.
Spending time with the janitor to figure out where he is in regards to work load and desire will go a long way. With love, patience, and prayer, help the janitor to see his job not only as a paycheck, but as a ministry. In seeing it as a ministry, the focus should fall to being a good steward of the resources God provides, including the building. Hopefully, at this point, the janitor will see with new eyes the problems that are present. Even in this instance, the pastor should be teaching to the heart, allowing the Holy Spirit to work in the janitor. In this ideal situation, the janitor would be willing to make the necessary changes to get the job done.
Unfortunately, we hardly live in an ideal world. Document everything, and do everything you can to make the ultimate decision as a team, not on your own. Work with the janitor throughout the entire process, and that should hopefully avoid many problems.
I am not sure if you currently have an evaluation process but that is usually the most helpful way to handle a situation like this. It is very natural for people to need encouragement and requirements for their job. If there is not an evaluation process already in place, begin that now. Do it with all of the employees of the church including allowing the Pastor to be evaluated as well. Some suggest a 360 degree evaluation which means, supervisor, self and peer evaluations. However, my experience has shown that the most needed are both self and supervisor.
This is a tough situation since there is such a long history with this family. Here is what I recommend:
1) Pray about what to do. This should always be the first thing that we do in every situation.
2) Consider doing annual reviews with each person who works for the church. If everyone’s performance was being tracked every year, you would be able to show him how his performance has been declining for a few years. This might take a few years to be an effective strategy, but it would work.
3) Talk with him, and let him know your honest feelings. Maybe he will be willing to improve his work efforts and give you what you are asking for.
4) Consider asking him to go part-time, and bring on another person to help him do his job. This way, he is able to keep his job and continue making money, while the church is able to have the church cleaned properly. The older gentleman can take care of certain tasks that work well with his health and age, and the new person can do everything else.
5) Finally, in the future, do not hire people that are members of your church. This is not only a dangerous thing to do for financial reasons (which is a different conversation for a different day), but it also helps prevent fallout when you have to let someone go for performance reasons.
Hope this helps!
Reid
This is definitely a tough situation, and I would agree with the statements above saying that it is hard to determine the exact route to take without knowing the full situation. I have a few practical thoughts to consider:
1.) If it’s clear that this person needs to be replaced, then I would recommend doing so as soon as possible. I believe that things only get worse the longer you delay the inevitable (whether in the business world or within a church). So, figure out an appropriate time and don’t delay.
2.) Talk to this man in private with a thankful attitude. Bringing this up to him in private might diffuse potential issues and concerns that he might have.
3.) Figure out a way to publicly thank this man in front of the congregation for his work in the church. There’s no doubt that if this person has done this for 20 years then they have probably done a lot of work that has gone unnoticed and not been thanked. I would imagine that if this man truly felt loved and thanked for his service, then this too would help eliminate potential problems that might arise.
4.) Be smart about who you hire next. If you hire a person that is incapable and does a worse job than this person, it would only add to potential problems. Make sure you are wise in the decision.
In response to Jerry Workman:
Excellent idea about the church-wide workday. Doing something like this every quarter would be a great thing to consider. That would be an easy way to prevent the church from looking neglected, while at the same time allowing the church to avoid a major controversy. Also, it would allow the members of the church to serve their church in a meaningful way.
I think this entire discussion shines a bright light on a glaring weakness in the administration of most churches. We tend to be very vague in communicating expectations with both staff and lay leaders. The end result is frustration on the part of both the one in and the one under authority.
While nothing was said about whether or not clear expectations were communicated with this aging janitor, if this case study reflects most churches with which I am aware, the poor man probably has little direction and even less official feedback.
Pastors and church leaders must learn to be clear in communicating expectations with those around them. Doing so brings focus and clarity to the entire team. A significant part of communicating these expectations is helping all involved to understand the role of rewards and consequences. This type of communication cannot solve the problem of this case study, but it could have prevented it from ever arising.
Aaron brings some great insights. While his insights are quite right, none of them are easy. I guess I would just want to make sure that you understand how difficult each of those things can be. Having to let someone go is never easy. WHile publically providing thankfulness for someone, choosing your words wisely is key, because he is being let go. Of course, being careful who you hire next is important but also a consistent challenge for all positions.
Reading into a lot of what has already been said, one principle that seems to be surfacing repeatedly is the need to treat this person in the most respectful way possible. Being honest is part of that, and it is also the most compassionate course. Otherwise, eventually true feelings, reasons, etc. will, as they always do, become apparent, and the individual will most likely come back and say, “I wish you’d at least have been honest with me.” Jack Welch has said, “The kindest form of management is the truth.” As has also been the consensus of earlier posts, give him a chance to work it out–if he so desires. If you have to drop him, you will want to drop him gently, and, certainly, not allow any future termination to come unexpectedly.
I suppose there are pros and cons both ways when it comes to hiring from within your church, but, once you do, it will change the dynamics of the relationship. The individual who was a friend and one of your sheep to be shepherded has now become your employee. You now enter a contractual agreement with additional power over that individual. It might be a bit naive to think that there will be no affect upon the previous status of the relationship, whether good or bad. Those waters can be successfully navigated, but they must be entered with the awareness that the potential for misunderstandings and resentments increases. For the leader, it certainly presents a challenge to view it as an opportunity for real servant-leadership.
There has been excellent counsel given to you by the responders to your question. As has been stated, it is hard to give explicit counsel not knowing the size of the congregation, whether a Church Operations Manual exists, or whether there is a evaluation process in place at your present place of service. If your church is one where there is not an active evaluation process in place, here are three recommendations to consider.
1. Do not begin an evaluation process when there is a staffing problem if no evaluation process existed before the crisis. People will see through the evaluation as an indirect attempt to address the problem. You would be better off addressing the problem directly.
2. I would recommend that if your church is a smaller congregation with many family relationships, it would be better to have a Personnel committee address the unclean areas of the church than you doing it as Pastor. If the areas of uncleanliness in the church have been going on for sometime, it will be noticed by others. By allowing the committee to address the issue, you have retained your role as Pastor to the custodian and his extended family. Eventually you will have to express your position on the uncleanliness in the church, but it would be much easier if another group in the church initiated the correction/dismissal of the custodian.
3. An important question also to consider is whether or not the custodian still needs the income to maintain his family. If he has not prepared for retirement and is still dependent upon the custodial salary, it will be a more difficult tasks to ask him to resign. Many people in their sixties who need income do not see other employment opportunities as an option. He may “put up a fight” if asked to resign. If he is dependent on the salary, it may be better to look at the “work day” solution and waiting for a more opportune time to address the issue.
As a number of students have already mentioned this weeks C.C. lacks a lot of information. For instance we don’t know if he is paid, exactly what he is doing wrong or not doing at all, or if he even wants to keep working. This man may be getting too old for this responsibility and may want less responsibility. Maybe talking to him to see how much being a janitor actually means to him. If he is paid then it is important that he be a good steward of the money he is receiving. He should realize that he may not be as careful as he used to be when he was younger. If he does not notice then I believe sitting him down and making sure he knows what his responsibilities are is important. If he acknowledges all that he is suppose to be doing but believes he is doing a good job still then I would go and simply show him the difference between his standard of good and mine. If he continues to preform badly even after we discussed what is expected of him I would give him two choices. I would tell him he can either stay and do the parts of the church that he is doing well at less pay (if he is paid) or try to find another ministry he can serve the church in. If he becomes unruly with these alternatives I would calmly and loving tell him that the church does need the gifts he offers and just because we may grow out of one position doesn’t mean we can’t become really good at another position.
In response to Aaron Boeving
I agree with what he suggested, getting a replacement is very important and doing it in a loving way is completely necessary. Although he did not consider helping the janitor like I suggested. Maybe the janitor is just in need for a little accountability he has been doing it for so long maybe he has just become laxed or doesn’t feel like anyone appreciates what he is doing. Making sure that he knows he is appreciated may fix the problem without having to fire him. Or maybe taking him aside and showing him your standards would be a great help to him. Whichever be the case we need to always make sure that we put the person above the task. We cannot become so task oriented we forget that some people may just need some coaching to get back into the game and should not just be dismissed when they are falling behind.
I might take some heat for this, but I think much of the information given in the set-up is somewhat irrelevant. The custodian’s length of membership, the family’s length of membership, and the age of the custodian are somewhat irrelevant to the primary issue that the church is not being properly maintained. This appears to be primarily a human resources issue and not an emotional touchy feely “how do we make an old janitor feel good about doing a poor job” issue. The key line in the intro is “he is not doing the job we need done.”
Now that all being said, the way in which the issue is addressed needs to be done with tenderness and compassion (as we should handle any personnel issue). I like Tony Wolfenbarger’s first suggestion; talk to the employee. Let him know the issues that have been observed and ask him to develop a plan to improve performance. As you are having this discussion, make sure that you have measurable and realistic expectations. This might require a period of a few weeks to examine and record exactly what areas are not being cared for and what the expectations are for those areas. It is advisable to have a representative from the personnel committee handle the issue to protect the pastor as Chris Flora recommended above.
Like it or not, there is a business side to leading a church. As believers, we should be good stewards whether leading the business side of a church or leading in a secular business.
It is extremely vital that this issue be dealt with and not swept under the rug. It is important that the church has a clean facility in order to make it accommodating for both the members and the guests. First, I would go to him and address the issue and give him a time frame of which he will be evaluated on certain criteria. This will enable him to improve in the areas that need to be improved. Secondly, if this does not work and does not produce results then I would ask him to lovingly move out of that position and as the Pastor encourage another area in which he could serve the church in some capacity. Thirdly, I would in front of the church give him a gift of some sort rewarding him for his time of service as the church’s janitor. I believe doing this will keep tensions down in terms of the family. The key though is to do everything in love. Even though this is an obvious point, often times it is not applied. Love is key.
Response to Marcus Dorsey:
I agree with your statement, “You cannot let your fears stop you from acting. Leadership is being a problem solver.” One thing is for certain in this case, if nothing is done the problem will only get worse. A characteristic of a strong leader is that he is willing to make difficult decisions, and is ready to accept responsibility for his actions. That being said, he must make every effort to make sure his decisions are good, solid decisions that he is willing to stand behind.
For instance several people have suggested hiring someone to help this man. On the surface it sounds like a good option; however, it has the potential for creating a whole new set of problems. How long will it be before this new person is complaining because he is doing the lion’s share of the work and feels he is being treated unfairly? Since he is going to be doing the more difficult parts of the job, will he be brought in at a higher rate of pay than the man who has been there for 20 years? If the answer is yes, is the man who has been doing the job going to complain because the new guy makes more than he does after 20 years of service? Add to this the fact that these men may well be voicing their complaints to any church member who will listen. It would not take long for church members to begin taking sides, and before you know it, you have created a whole new problem. Now, instead of having one employee to deal with, you have two.
The point I am trying to make is that I agree with you, we cannot let fear keep us from making the right decision. This is especially true when the right decision is a very difficult decision. It is best to do what must be done, try to minimize the damage for everyone involved, and then move forward.
The first action is to take some action. I agree with what was said that waiting is only going to make things worse. Not acting because of fear of a situation is detrimental to the church and unbiblical.
I would start with a sit down conversation with the janitor. I agree that if his work is slipping he probably already knows it. Then together you can evaluate why it is slipping. Is it because he is getting older, or is it because the equipment he is using is getting older and not working as well, or is it because of an increase in church growth or church facility use. Together you can evaluate the problem.
Once you have identified what you believe is the real root cause I would involve a larger group in laying out a plan to improve the situation. A building and grounds team or personnel team would be great choices. They will you a wider perspective, more ideas and some buffer from the situation.
As for hiring members vs non-members. A prayerful decision based off of qualifications should be the key motivator, not their membership in your church. All personnel problems can be avoided by clear job descriptions up front and systematic evaluations every six months. I personally have had better employees from within the church. They have a personal investment in their work and a better familiarity with the people around them.
Danny - I agree with your point about not starting evaluations unless they have already been done. Starting an evaluation at this point in the game would only cause division and sepculation. I also agree with your thoughts having work days if he is dependent on the salary. Once again, this is a tricky situation that can hurt you, as the pastor, because of how everything is perceived by the janitor and the congregation. Proceed with caution in making a final decision!
I question whether “all personnel problems can be avoided by clear job descriptions up front and systematic evaluations every six months.” Church issues–business or otherwise–are rarely ever that clear cut and simple to resolve. I do agree that a positive, proactive approach to personnel is vital (see Rob Sumerall’s post), but to say that “the custodian’s length of membership, the family’s length of membership, and the age of the custodian are somewhat irrelevant to the primary issue that the church is not being properly maintained” is perhaps going too far. Such an approach may lead to a clean building but also bleeding Body. Cleaning up the church may seem easy compared to cleaning up the mess left by feelings hurt needlessly if other solutions are available.
I agree wholeheartedly with the difficulty of this situation. Praying is definitely the starting point. It will cover the pastor and all involved spiritually. Documenting every conversation and meeting with the janitor would come next. It will cover the pastor and all involved physically. And the counsel and involvement of a personnel committee or church staff member will increase the wisdom of any and all decisions. There is no clear indication of the length of time the pastor has been there, so I would guard myself by seeking the counsel and involvement of respected leaders in the church in handling the situation.
The one thing I would suggest is involving the existing janitor in potentially partnering with his replacement in on-the-job-training so he feels a sense of passing off the baton to the next generation of custodial care. Often I’ve found in a training situation the existing janitor raises the bar in the quality of care because he is looking more critically at the facility, required emphasis, and seeing weaknesses in his own quality of work. In that scenario, his hours can be reduced to accommodate for the addition of a trainee.
At both of my previous churches they had experienced similar situations prior to my arrival, and had subsequently chosen to exclusively hire outside custodial care so as to guard against further internal strife. Although there is a sense of disconnectedness with the ministerial functions of the facility, the long-term stress of potential internal difficulties is avoided.
I appreciate the sensitivity of Tony W’s suggestions. Often administrators can focus exclusively on the job performance and forget the people involved. I agree that the janitor’s time of service should be taken into consideration. And I regard the openness and honesty of talking with the janitor and respecting the individual and his investment in the ministries of the church.
I agree with Danny H’s point about beginning an evaluation process when the problem is at the forefront. It would create a negative approach to every annual evaluation of every staff member and support staff from then on, when an evaluation should be seen as an opportunity for accountability and personal improvement.
I also agree with Danny H’s opinion regarding the utilization of a committee in order to retain the role of the pastor to the janitor and his family. Otherwise the pastor becomes the “bad guy” and sacrifices any opportunity for future ministry to this individual, his family, and everyone closely associated with him.
In response to Andrew Rowley:
I agree that making sure someone knows the expectations of the job is key. I’ve personally been in a job situation before where the expectations were not very clear and because of that I was not working up to them. After I was given the expectations from the boss clearly, I thrived in the job as I knew what I was suppose to do.
As many have pointed out, we are really speculating here in this matter. Notice I said that “If it’s clear that this person needs to be replaced”… so I’m assuming that expectations are clear and this person is simply not meeting up to them anymore. Because this person has been in this position for 20 years, it’s unlikely this janitor does not know what he is suppose to do.
I do agree though, that we can’t become too task oriented as well. Again, this is a tough situation, and I would still stick with my original statement that if it is crystal clear that he is not working out any longer, then it’s best to move past it as quickly as possible. I must admit though, this is purely an opinion based upon some experience I’ve had.
I hate to repeat too much of what has already been said, so I’m going to try to keep this brief. I have to echo the main issue that has already been raised a number of times and say that until we know more details about the situation, it’s hard to give a really solid recommendation on how to handle things. But here are my initial thoughts.
Given that this man has been serving the church for so long–and in a position that has more than likely caused him to create a territorial bond with the facilities–it is important to keep in mind that he likely may feel an ownership-like sense of protection over the facilities. That may sound a bit ridiculous, but in a sense the building has been “his thing” for so long, and threatening that could cause immense damage to him. This cannot be taken lightly as you are seeking to approach him about this matter.
Assuming his position is paid position, this issue is a very serious one that can even turn into a stewardship issue within the church. And given that this man has a deep history within the congregation, this situation has the potential to get very ugly if not handled correctly. Arguably the best initial step would be to take the man aside in a setting that is not condemning nor threatening and discuss with him the issues at hand. If he is old enough that he is considering retirement, it may be a nice gesture to offer come polite encouragement toward that ends, or even give him some sort of incentive that could encourage him toward taking that major life leap. In that instance, it would probably be wise to gently suggest a system that would include him training someone else to take over his position. That could be a great way for him to serve the church, still feel adequate and useful, yet pass the baton to someone who is physically more capable of meeting the needs that the church has.
It would be ideal to let the man keep doing what he can around the church (as he is clearly extremely committed to serving the church in that way and loves doing what he does) and just find a few additional helpers to pick up some of the slack. But if the position is paid–and consequently if any additional positions would have to be paid as well–then that probably would not be feasible, and it would have to be dealt with differently. A more specific approach could be developed given a more detailed description of the situation.
In reply to Chris’ original post (#2), I think you’re train of thought is right on track. You ask all the right questions that would lead to a better understanding of the situation and consequently a better plan to addressing it.
I especially think your attention to the need for clear-cut expectations is important. At first I thought this whole issue seemed sort of ridiculous and it seemed really harsh to me to think of this poor man losing his position of service just because of old age and a failure to keep up to speed with the custodial duties, but after having read through several of the answers provided by you and the other classmates, I have come to understand what a serious issue this is, and simply letting things continue as they are is clearly not a viable solution. That is why I liked your focus on making sure that whoever fills the role of custodian–whether this man or someone new–knows what is expected of him/her and can therefore gauge whether or not he/she is meeting the requirements of the position. This would be a good thing to implement ASAP so that it can be instrumental in hopefully raising the issue of how this man is currently falling short, and what he can do either to improve or to step aside to make room for someone who can.
The sole focus does not need to (and likely should not) be on expectations, as that can become impersonal and can take away from the relational side of things, but the expectations do need to exist and they need to be solidified in order to avoid getting stuck in future situations like this one.
In response to Russell Zik:
I whole heartedly agree that you should give the janitor some sort of gift or some sort of recognition for all of his hard work. Chastise in private and praise in public is great for this scenario! I think you made a very good point Russell.
My Response:
Honestly at this point it is difficult to offer any advice that has not already been given. I will say that personally if this man is 60 plus years old and is not getting the job done for health reasons then it may be time to talk to him about transitioning into a lesser role and praising him for his years of service.
If the lack of job completion is not due to age then I would question him on his desire, his ability, his understanding, and his overall demeanor towards this act of service in the church.
One last thing to remember. You can not control peoples reactions. All you can control is speaking truth through love. It is important to be selfless, without anger, and graceful in broaching this subject. However, when the rubber meets the road, you can not be concerned about how his family will react. I would not worry about hurting him or his family if you are approaching this from a Godly perspective. Speak the truth and let God handle the rest.
I suggest sitting down with the custodian to discuss his perception of the campus. Church maintenance is a tremendous ministry and responsibility. Since he has been serving in the capacity for several years, he can be led to recognize that the facility’s cleanliness is not up to par. Acknowledge and affirm his years of successful service, while level setting in the unmet expectations. If he is not able top perform the duties as necessary, it is time to help him understand it may be time to support another function or ministry of the church. It would be beneficial to guide him in recognizing that now may be the time to pass the torch. Include him in training the replacement thereby honoring his expertise and experience. In all aspects, be encouraging and appreciative.
I want to respond to the “bloggers” who are calling for the pastor to take direct action with the aging janitor. I do not want to come across as a “know it all” ,but I believe that direct pastoral confrontation with the janitor is a mistake in a smaller congregational context. If the situation presented in the question is accurate, it could cost the pastor his ministry with this congregation. I do not believe it is ‘cowardly” to ask for appropriate leadership to help in the intervention with this dilemma.
Having been involved with the corrrection and dismissal of staff in smaller and larger congregation contexts, I know there is a difference. We have dismissed staff in larger church context for ineffectiveness with little or no repercussions to the overall ministry of the church. In another instance I directly dismissed a staff member in a middle- sized congregation who had deep family ties in the church. It has a direct negative impact on the rest of my time in ministry with that congregation. Everyone knew this staff person needed to be dismissed, but I turned out to be the “bad guy.” Looking back, I should have had other leadership intervene, rather than I doing it myself.
I do echo what Mike Colston wrote about covering the situation with prayer. When the pastor puts this situation before the throne, the Lord can open a “teachable moment” with the janitor. There may come a time when the pastor can speak a word of correction without the atmosphere of threat to the janitor.
If that moment does not come, my strong counsel would be to involve other leadership.
You have already gotten a lot of good advice. Let me add a few other ideas as well. You might consider a written job description for your paid employees. The description should include detailed descriptions of the employee’s duties. This will not only communicate the job responsibilities clearly, it will give you a foundation for doing regular performance reviews as well. It will also give you a basis on which to perform disciplinary procedures and even terminations (if it comes to that). In fact, it would be a good idea to gradually create a job description for all of your volunteer leaders as well. We call these ministry descriptions in our church. Not only do these descriptions help in disciplining a worker, they also help in recruiting. A written job description allows you to set expectations clearly from the beginning.
Also, as I have already mentioned, regular, written performance reviews of all employees should be completed at least annually. This does not mean that you should not communicate with employees more often than once a year. You should drop by when he is cleaning the church and strike up a conversation with him about the job. Tell him that you appreciate his dedication to the church and that there are a few things you want him to take care of for you. Point out the areas that could be done better. If he protests that he is not up to doing the job, then might ask him for suggestions as to how they might get done. You will have established that the job has to be done and that he can no longer do it. He might volunteer to step down. if not, Tony has made a good suggestion above about regular work days at the church. These could supplement the job the janitor is doing without costing the church any more money. Or, you might offer to allow him to stay on in a volunteer capacity and allow you to pay someone who could do the things he can not.
In any event, replacing a church member is very difficult, especially in a smaller church. It may not be possilbe. Pray about the problem and trust that God will work the situation out to his satisfaction. Remember, it’s God’s church, not yours. In the future you might consider hiring an outside contractor to clean the church. An outside service is easier to discipline than a church member.
In Response to Reid Hopkins
I liked Reid’s third and fourth pieces of advice. Firstly, making him part time and bringing in someone in allows one to accomplish two things. First, it keeps the church from having to pay an amount of money that is not comparable to then work being done. Secondly, bringing someone else in allows the work to actually get done. This piece of advice allows for transition and allows the job to get done.
Secondly, the fourth piece of advice will not help the current situation but will keep one from allowing history to repeat itself. It can become a very difficult situation when hiring members inside the church because feelings and emotions are involved. As Christians and as Pastors in leadership positions, we do not want to hurt anyone’s feelings. However, what is difficult in a situation such as this is that the job still needs to be done and it needs to be done in an adequate manner. Therefore, it is not a wise thing to do to hire a church member to do a job such as janitorial work. Applying the fourth piece of Reid’s advice can help prevent future complicated situations such as these.
At this point, there isn’t too much more that I could add. Everyone adds very practical, wise and concrete advice. I do agree with the common point in Tony Wolfenbarger’s and Chris Regas’ first two entries: there are too many unknown factors to give concrete advice. In thinking through all the possible scenarios and assumptions, then, my two cents worth is to ask more deliberate questions about the church’s power/political environment.
The entry reads, “We don’t want to hurt him or his family, but we need improvement in caring for our facility.” I wonder if there are some politics or fear of man issues? Obviously as pastors we don’t want to hurt anyone, but could another concern in this situation be an inability to confront these sorts of necessary transitions? Is the tenured family a power player in the church community? Are they a key influencer, for better or worse? Is this difficulty a possible symptom of an inward focused church or an unhealthy church? That is, could this conundrum be pointing to bigger issues underneath the surface?
I realize that this entry isn’t the most directly practical approach to the presented scenario. But hopefully it adds another angle to the discussion.
I am responding to Josh Flowers comment, “Like it or not, there is a business side to leading a church. As believers, we should be good stewards whether leading the business side of a church or leading in a secular business.”
I appreciate the straight forwardness and realistic approach to the day to day matters of keeping a church as an organization running. Your distillation of the issue as a stewardship issue is helpful. In fact, the lack of building maintenance stewardship could lead to safety hazard issues.
The one challenge I give, however, is that we are also called to steward people and their souls.
My point is that it’s all interrelated and interconnected. We can’t have church without the people or the building. The task is to balance the two.
The long-term custodian at our church has been a member of the church for twenty years. His family has been a part of the church for 60+ years. The problem is that he is getting older, and he is not doing the job that we need done. We don’t want to hurt him or his family, but we need improvement in caring for our facility.
I will assume that “our church” is my current church and address the issue from our perspective. Every member of our support staff has a written job description, a daily check-in with his or her supervisor, and 2 job evaluations per year (January and July). With these in place such scenarios are much easier to deal with since communication is high and evaluations are written but “conversational” in nature (a give and take exchange).
We would discuss the problem together in our daily check-in (or several daily check-ins) and document it in our next biannual evaluation. Since the scenario clearly stated that “he is not doing the job we need done” and not that he cannot do the job the expectation for a job well done stands (age is not a consideration). We would explain that improvement must be recognized immediately or the next evaluation would include some formal response on the part of the church. This gives him 6 months “on notice” to make a change - basically decide if he wants to continue to work here.
All written evaluations are reviewed and maintained by our Personnel Committee.
When you are beginning to consider possible ways of addressing a practical situation such as that of the church’s aging janitor, it is worthwhile to remember that God is the utterly wise, providential Ruler of the entire universe, and that nothing happens by accident in relation to His sovereign plan. For this reason, you can believe the Lord to show you how to deal with the situation in a way which serves a redemptive divine purpose.
One of the ways in which the local church is called to minister to its members is by helping members deal with their own aging in a wise and godly manner. It seems to me that God may have ordained just this situation in order to spur the church’s leaders on to see that the janitor is having difficulty in grappling with the loss of physical strength, and possibly the loss of a certain degree of mental alertness also, which are taking place in his life as part of the aging process. I would therefore encourage you to seek a solution which not only is in the church’s best interest, but which also gives the janitor reassurance of the Lord’s and the church’s steadfast concern for his best interest. Whatever the concrete outcome may be, it is important that the janitor be confident of the church’s gratitude for his long-term service, and of his continued place as a vitally important member of the congregation and the larger body of Christ.
As I conceive of the situation on the basis of the information given, it seems likely to me that an unmitigatedly adverse reaction on your part toward the janitor’s efforts would be uncalled for. You need to discern, as best you can, what particular instructions for the cleaning of the church facility he is capable of following, and to confine yourself to suggesting to him ways to improve his doing of the job which are practically realistic. Instead of your immediately firing the janitor or reducing his working hours and pay, I think it could be worthwhile to enlist some volunteer help from the church’s membership and to mention to him in a relatively informal, relaxed way that so-and-so will be coming to the church building to help him with certain aspects of the cleaning job. Then, over a period of time, he will probably come to recognize his limitations more clearly than he does now, and to begin to consider other possible ways of serving his fellow church members. I am convinced that, through prayer and patience on your and the church’s part, the problem can be resolved in a way that meets the ongoing need for a clean building and that expresses gratitude and respect, as opposed to frustration and accusation, toward the church’s devoted and faithful janitor.
This seems like one of those situations that you have to make an uncomfortable decision. If there is something that is not being done, that needs to be done, then something has to change. I would hope that if the same person has been doing the house keeping for 20 years someone would know him well enough to know how to approach him regarding the matter of what is not being done. I also think this has much more to do with the person that has been doing the work for the past two decades than with the lack of productivity over the last little while. I think our culture puts such a high value on work and productivity that sometimes we can lose sight of the worker, especially when they are older.
I would suggest talking with the housekeeper and seeing if he still wanted to work or needed the income from the job. It could be that he is ready to give up the position but feels duty bound to continue on in service to the church. If that is not the case and he is in dependent upon the income then I say keep him on and find a part time helper. Odds are if he is not able to do the job as well as he has in the past he is aware of this fact and might welcome the assistance.
I would also add from experience (I was on the housekeeping crew of a mega church) that people will often leave the church in a state of disarray that they would never allow their homes to be in. I would imagine this has not always been the case. This is more than likely something that has come about in just the last two or three generations. Perhaps the stewardship issue would then come down to the many people that are gladly leaving the church in a mess and not the single elderly man responsible for cleaning up after them all.
Ask the members of the church to start doing their part and cleaning their Sunday School rooms and taking their trash with them when they leave the sanctuary. This would probably save the gentleman who is doing the cleaning now several hours worth or work and free him to do more of the general cleaning that is probably the issue at hand.
I would agree with most of the suggestions raised with how to go about handling this issue and what I have mentioned is just another opinion. One thing I would disagree with in part is the idea that this should be handled from a business standpoint. I know there is a financial side to running a church but the same is true of running a household. I would say this should be handled like a family situation and not a business. We see a lot of talk of the church as a flock, bride, body, etc, in scripture but never as a business (unless I am mistaken). Why then are so many Churches ran more like businesses today than like families or bodies?
I’m a bit late in responding to this so I do not really have anything new to have. I agree with everyone who is saying this is a delicate issue. His family ties to the church could definitely create division if this is not handled well. Like many people said, there are a lot of unknowns in this situation. If he doesn’t have a list of the specific tasks that need to be done, then that is a definite first step; however, if his age is keeping him from performing his tasks to the necessary standard then something more serious will have to be done.
I agree with Jamie, that if one or two more people can be hired, this might be ideal, but if this isn’t in the budget then it just isn’t feasible. I’m honestly not sure what the best way of resolving this issue might be. I think that Andy makes some good points about having evaluations done by a supervisor. This would set forth clear standards.
I would suggest that you come up with a list of janitorial tasks that need to be done in the church, including the current and new needs. You can show the list to the current janitor and see if he would be willing to take on the extra tasks for a little extra pay. If he is not willing to take on the extra tasks, you could allow him to keep the current tasks and salary that he has and give the extra jobs and the extra stipend to another person. That way you would be honoring the current janitor’s long-term commitment to the church and giving him the opportunity to make more money, but also looking out for the growing janitorial needs of the church. I further suggest that you publicly (like from the pulpit) thank the janitor for his long term of service to the church.
This is my response to Marcus Dorsey’s post:
I agree with Marcus. It is a good idea to talk with the current janitor privately to ask him how he feels about the job. Maybe because he is getting older, he is also more tired or not able to work as quickly. He may feel unable to do the job as well as he would like. If you gently approach the subject, you can discover more information that will help you to know where to go from there. Maybe the problem will work itself out as you discover what the current janitor thinks and work with him to do what is best for the church and for the janitor.
I think Tony W. had a great point that you need develop a setting in which you are regularly evaluating your employees. The abscence of that system would seem to have created the situation that you are in today. Thus, on one end of this deal you are going to have to bite the bullet.
The age of your janitor would seem to be what you are eluding to as the source of inadequate care for the facility. I would probably explain the situation to your current janitor and allow him to train a replacement and then retire him in an honorable fashion. If the job is not getting done will enough then your current janitor is probably well aware of his own difficulties in completing the job like he used to.
Therefore, I would bring this to his attention and point out the need for a replacement and make it a thing of honor. Explain that you appreciate his years of dedication and honor him appropriately. Whether as a formality or practicality have him spend time with your next janitor so he can show them the ropes.
If might be that you need to continue to provide some financial support for him, like Tony W. recommended. This might be the price you have to pay for a lack of previous performance evaluation. If your current janitor does not readily hop on board with the idea of retiring , then you could negotiate a sort of retirement pay in order to smooth things over.
At the end of the day, I would start evaluating every person, in every positition so that you have grounds to deal with these situations in the future.
I have to agree with Jamie, could the church not seek to find some volunteers to come alongside the janitor and help cover the areas he can’t handle anymore because of his age? I think that is the best option. You don’t have to harm the janitor, and potentially provide him with more community and new friends in the church. It could be a great encouragement to him to have some people come and say we care about you and we are grateful for what you do, so we are going to volunteer to help you in your work.
He is part of your local body and should be taken care of by them. If he is working to the best of his ability and there is not a sin issue involved, then I think this merits grace rather than giving him the boot. Having some volunteers come in and help on a regular basis is a way to do that. It gives others the chance to worship God in a tangible way and be a blessing to the janitor.
In a situation like this I would first suggest that the pastor, if possible, needs to stay at arms length from a decision like this. While he does have an oversight responsibility for the leadership of the whole church, and typically the direction of staff is a part of that, I think that the pastor does not need a direct involvement in matters related to janitorial staff. As Chris mentioned, often there will be trustees or a personnel team to deal directly with this. If there is a personnel policy in place then this makes matters like this a little more easy to navigate as typically there will be provisions made for a staff review. My main point though in this is that if I were the pastor my concern here is for the spiritual welfare of the janitor regardless of his position of employment at the church. I would want to thank him often for his heart for service and celebrate his years of faithful service to the church. I would have his example of Christ like service noted publicly. If he understands his position at the church to be serving Christ and if the lord softens his heart so that he might love the church more as he loves Christ more then I would pray that he would ultimately desire what is best for the church overall. That would be my involvement in the situation, while at the same time guiding the team responsible on how to make Godly decision related to personnel and perhaps considering raising up support for this man - paid or voluntary as Jerry suggested.
I did not read through all the comments, so forgive me if this is repeated somewhere.
If you’re looking to hire someone else to take his place, then I think a great way to both honor this gentleman and be sure your new guys is familiar with the grounds is to let the old janitor train the new one. This gives him a sense of continual investment into the job he has invested so much in to. Of course, if he hasn’t been doing that great of a job, you’ll still have to walk through with the new guy and make sure he understands what level of work you expect.
I like the idea of honoring the janitor for his faithful service to the church. Bringing him in front of the congregation so that everyone can show their thankfulness and support, along with honoring him with a plaque or framed letter would be a nice touch to show just how much he has meant to the church.
In regards to Matthew, in the previous post, saying that the pastor should stay out of the situation if possible: It seems to me that if the situation is really that tense and if it requires that much thought and care, then it is just the kind of situation that the pastor would need to be involved in. The pastor’s leadership prove extremely helpful, because, ultimately, this situation has the potential of effecting the whole church if it isn’t handled well. That sounds like exactly the kind of situation that a pastor should be a part of.
One of the most important things to do is to talk with him. Learn what is on his mind, and what he is thinking. It could be that he has no idea that he is struggling, it could be he is looking for help, it could be he is realizing he want to retire and is trying to take it easy in his last few months or years. You will never know unless you talk to him and confront him in a loving manner.
Whenever dealing with workers, make sure everything is not only documented, but documented correctly. Always give honest performance reviews, no artificially high scores. Always make sure that on the review there are subjective and objective measurements, and if he is not measuring up, be honest about it. This is to make sure the church is protected in the case that things do get ugly, and the church is hit with an unthinkable lawsuit for wrongful termination.
Of course all this should be handled gently, workers and church members are a valuable commodity, and are made in the image of God.
It seems that this tends to happen in churches on a regular basis, and not just with custodial staff. From my experience in church ministry, cleaning and custodial duties turn over on a fairly regular basis, so the fact that he has stayed with it for 20 years is impressive and should be celebrated. Rarely is the custodial staff thanked for the work they put in, and often not acknowledge at all, even within a church setting. His recent decline in performance may be directly linked to a lack of interaction with the other pastoral staff member. While on the other hand, he just may no longer be physically capable meeting the demands of the job. The first step, after celebrating his commitment and job well done, may be to sit down and discuss with him how things are going from his perspective. Really showing interest in his work may allow him to open up and discuss what is going on. If he is feeling that nothing is wrong, there should be a clear communication that he has not been fulfilling the role that the church needs him to do. Hopefully this would spur him on to work harder and if not, then adding a part time person to assist with the task may be necessary if termination is not deemed necessary. Either way, this is a sticky situation and should be maneuvered carefully.
In response to Chad’s post (11), I think staff evaluations are not only beneficial, but sometimes necessary. I see the point of those who disagree that these shouldn’t be thrown in to place if they haven’t used before. However, if evaluations for the entire staff are being implemented for the first time, I see no harm or issue with doing so. It is important for staff members to evaluate their own work, evaluate others work, and to see what other staff members think of the one’s own work. All of these methods are both helpful, while being sensitive and motivational to the person being evaluated.